What Pastors Do Not Want You To Know

Reply barbara duff

12:41 AM on February 21, 2011

60 % of people never open their bibles they just take what the preacher says at face value, it can't be wrong because the preacher said it, and thats one of the reasons there is so many denominations( false teachings out there)....

Reply JamesStreetChurchofChrist

12:01 AM on February 05, 2011

Additionally, I've never understood why people seem to think that just because the Holy Spirit may choose to use a figure of speech that it is somehow of lesser value than the literal thing to which He refers. If the Holy Spirit used the present tense "baptism doth also now save us" as a figure of speech to somehow refer to or explain what happened with Noah, does it make the expression, "baptism doth also now save us" have no meaning? Of course not. In order for the explanation or figure to make sense, there must be a literal meaning that makes the comparison valid.

So, what, pray tell, is the literal meaning of "baptism doth also now save us" if it is not that "baptism" is "now" an agent or means by which God "save[s] us" - obviously not through washing the body (for, it only becomes dirty again), but by the washing of the conscience, the "answer of a good conscience toward God".

He, by grace, gave His Son to die and rise again, and, by grace, gave the commandment , "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). By faith a person obeys the gospel (2Thes. 1:8, Romans 10:16; Hebrews 5:8) by repenting of sin (cf Acts 17:30), confessing faith in Christ (Matt 10:32, Acts 8:37), and being baptized for the remission of sin (Acts 2:38). Having had sins washed away in baptism (Acts 22:16), that person now has a clean conscience with which to answer God.

And that is the truth because it is God's Word (Jn 17:17).

Reply JamesStreetChurchofChrist

11:36 PM on February 04, 2011

Charley, If you had read and thought about what I said in my last e-mail you would not have posted such embarrassingly false reasoning for public view.

No one in this video clip, in fact no one I ever knew, ever said that baptism is the exclusive thing that saves apart from Christ. We were not emphasizing baptism above Christ or apart from Christ. To say we are is not only dishonest, but it completely misrepresents us.

You are missing what Peter says is "the like-figure." Peter said Noah, being saved in the ark by water, is the figure. The actual thing he compares it to is baptism. If the statement "baptism doth... save us" is only a figure of speech, what is he trying to tell us? To build an ark? I think not. One thing has to be the real thing, the other is the figure. Which is it Charley? You can't make "baptism doth also now save us" as a figure and have the sentence make any sense at all.

You've chosen an interesting passage to take issue with, since you admit that everyone outside the ark perished, and that only the few, eight souls to be precise, were saved by being in the ark when destruction came. That's what we've been saying all along. There was but one ark in which one could have been saved by the grace of God, the likefigure whereunto, there is only one church in which one may be saved when the earth's ultimate destruction comes. how does one take entrance into that church? By the one door of the ark... aahem... I mean, church.

Jesus is that door (John 10:1-10), and baptism is how one goes "into Christ" (Galatians 3:27) in the likeness of His death (Romans 6:3, 4). It is baptism that puts one in His body (1Corinthians 12:13), and it was baptism that put people in the First Century church, those who were being saved (Acts 2:41, 47).

Now, as far as your rather unkind sentiment regarding the mix of law and grace, I suggest you go an learn what the apostle Paul meant when he said:

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Context: He was describing the manner in which he would assimilate into whatever culture he found himself so that he might be trusted by some of them. Among Jews, he adhered to their rituals and the Law of Moses so as not to offend them needlessly. When he was among those "without law" he did what he could to fit in with them also, but he makes sure we know in parentheses that he did not consider himself "without law" altogether. He knew he was accountable to a law of God, and that was the law of Christ. Was he under grace? You know he taught it as well as I do. But he did not consider law and grace as mutually exclusive of one another. He considered the law of Christ having been given by God's grace, just like the "laws" given to Noah as to how the ark should be built.

Genesis 6:8 ¶But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

22 ¶Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

Meanwhile, you "grace only, faith only, repentance only, blood only, Christ only, belief only, confession only, sanctification only, Holy Spirit only, justification only, love only, ten commandments only, kitchen sink only" type people have so many "only's" in your doctrine that it is no wonder you get confused when someone DOES NOT say "only" about baptism saving, and you go off half-cocked as if we had.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion...

But denominational "Pastors" and their adherents are.

Reply charlie cole

01:35 PM on February 04, 2011

In commenting on this passage, I would encourage readers to do what they tell you to---'get your bibles out at home', and see what this passage teaches. They use 6 words out of 120 to teach on baptism. If I were to find a prooftext passage for baptismal regeration, I would not have started with this text! verses 18 thru 22 gives us a bigger picture. Verse 18 tells us that 'Christ also hath once suffered for sins, and that 'He brings us to God'. v.19 He preached unto the 'spirits in prison' when He 'died'. v. 20 tells of Noah prepared an 'ark', while God waited to bring judgement on a 'disobedient' population on earth, and water overtook all the earth! Now if water covered the WHOLE earth who went into the water? Think about it for a minute. All the earth, all the population. Thats right, ALL went into the water, none were exempted. The difference is Noah had an excape plan! He had an ARK! If you went into the water without the ark, you perished! You can put people into water all day and night, but if they don't have an ARK they will likewise perish. Noah and his family were 'saved thru baptism', because they were in the ark; If you are not 'in Christ', baptism will in nowise save you either. The phrase 'baptism doth also now save us' is in a 'figure', and a 'figure' is not the real thing! Baptism will not put away the 'filth of the flesh'; the only that happens is if you 'have a good conscience toward God', by being in the ARK. Baptism will not give you a good conscience. You may feel better about 'church things', but your heart will still be as corrupt as a rotten apple. When you try to mix 'law' with 'grace' you will have a bitter outcome, and it seems that is what we have here.
I have posted another clip, and it takes up where this one leaves off.

This episode was not about Dina Hackert, but while some of you may be thinking we were picking on the "poor" lady, she is the one who presumed to usurp authority to preach, and while doing so promoted a soul condemning false doctrine, denying the biblical purpose of baptism. She put herself out publicly, and thus is publicly rebuked for the error. We do not focus only on her, either. We are equal-opportunity False Teacher exposers. I just don't have a bunch of clips to post right now.
[/JamesStCoC]

Reply JamesStreetChurchofChrist

08:53 PM on January 29, 2011

I have posted another clip, and it takes up where this one leaves off.

This episode was not about Dina Hackert, but while some of you may be thinking we were picking on the "poor" lady, she is the one who presumed to usurp authority to preach, and while doing so promoted a soul condemning false doctrine, denying the biblical purpose of baptism. She put herself out publicly, and thus is publicly rebuked for the error. We do not focus only on her, either. We are equal-opportunity False Teacher exposers. I just don't have a bunch of clips to post right now.

Reply JamesStreetChurchofChrist

02:34 PM on January 29, 2011

charlie cole says...
how does one get the rest of the 'clip'? I hit next, and the same short clip is repeated!
thanks

Charlie,
I'm not sure what you are asking. There is only one clip of this type available at this time. If you are looking to see the entire show, you may go to our UStream archives and see everything we have done in the last several months, since we started streaming live. You can go to the "videos" box toward the bottom of the page and select whatever date you would like to watch. Each show is about 1 hr long. Here is a link: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/as-it-is-written

Reply charlie cole

09:35 AM on January 29, 2011

how does one get the rest of the 'clip'? I hit next, and the same short clip is repeated!
thanks

Reply JamesStreetChurchofChrist

08:06 PM on January 28, 2011

"Falconspath"
You just left a message last night. You must understand that we cannot immediately respond to every post or email. I sent your response a few moments ago.
RE: this video: It is a clip of a much longer episode in which there is plenty of scripture given. However, you may have missed the passage Steve posted opposite the video. Perhaps before criticizing, you could watch the whole clip. There is scripture discussed within the first minute.

Reply falconspath

07:46 PM on January 28, 2011

good day, I don't know if you answer comments on your videos or not; don't seem to answer on the other postins on site. You are leaving out a very important part of this video scripture!!!!!
waiting

James Street Church of Christ

219 S. James St.
Ludington, MI 49431
(231) 843 - 8700
------------------
Steve: (231) 425-6044
steve@jamesstcoc.com